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 How fair or wise was Dumbledore? Was he a user? Did he abuse his position?

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SnapesRose

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PostSubject: How fair or wise was Dumbledore? Was he a user? Did he abuse his position?   Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:22 am

To me he was a user, though he was wise, why was he wise?
Cause he knew how to do magic? cause he knew how to do things in ways others didn't -didn't need a invisibility cloak. He used Severus, he made him live 2 lives and in the end he still made fun of him. The hat in PoA, and other instances. He waved dismissed Severus' accomplishments, or his discomfort, for the greater good.

Why was AD so against DA? Teaching them? just cause of V? That's dumb.
In my book, because Severus knew how to do both magic, the good and bad, but knew how to undo the bad, were as AD didn't, nor any of the other DE.
AD wasn't a great man, he was scared and he used.

Any thoughts?? Opinions?? Smile
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~Lilith~
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PostSubject: Re: How fair or wise was Dumbledore? Was he a user? Did he abuse his position?   Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:31 am

Dumbledore was definitely a manipulator. He manupulated Snape, Harry and probably each and every single Order member. Sometimes I wonder if it wasn't actually good that Snape died, because, otherwise you never know how people might treat him after Dumbledore asked him to kill him. Harry might have changed his mind, but how about the rest of the wizarding world?

Dumblefore might not have been as evil as Voldemort, but he definitely knew how to use people and their actions against them.

And as a headmaster of the school, you would think he should be objective and not show favourism. We can forgive Snape and other teachers for favouring their students (Snape might go over the top sometimes, but hell, nobody liked Slytherin, so he was the only one to take care of his students), but Dumbledore? Take Philosopher' Stone for example. How unfair was to award "last minute points" after Slytherin alread won the house cup? And how many times he let The Golden Trio get away with breaking the rules. Actually, not only them. Take what Sirius did to Snape for example. If Sirius was a Slytherin, I am sure he would have been expelled for what he did.

So yeah, Dumbledore might be brilliant (Snape said so himself), but he is definitely not all good.

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SnapesRose

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PostSubject: Re: How fair or wise was Dumbledore? Was he a user? Did he abuse his position?   Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:48 am

Yeah!! Exactly! Exactly!!!

And the trio got away and away with stuff that would have expelled any other student, but HP being the golden boy and the other 2, course we can't do that.
He may have been brilliant, yes, V was too, he managed to make himself invincible had he not been to obsessed and evil he would have lived forever.
Back to being brilliant, I still think Severus is the greater Wizard from them both, though he may not have ADs knowledge, or Vs, but he knows how to handle, how to deal with both sides of magic.
Inventing 'bad/evil' spells but knowing the counter spell... and AD had to call on Severus for help.
Most DEs wouldn't even know how to undo something.
AD did take people for granted, overlooking and downplaying, like he had done to HP when he told him about JP and Severus. I am guessing people like AD never had that happen to them, they don't know how it feels to be bullied and the authority figures not 'seeing' or over looking.
AD trapped Severus, granted Severus wanted to set things right, but did AD have to take advantage??
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PostSubject: Re: How fair or wise was Dumbledore? Was he a user? Did he abuse his position?   Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:47 pm

"Sometimes, I think we sort too soon..." (Goblet of Fire)

Albus had said so to Severus about courage, implying that Severus could have been sorted into Gryffindor because of Severus' courage (the conversation was about Igor Karkaroff's lack of courage).

The same should apply to Albus. He had been sorted into Gryffindor. For my part, he should have been sorted into Slytherin as he was manipulative and able to scheme things several years ahead. He manipulated Severus, Harry and other people, most likely the Minister for Magic himself (though Fudge was most likely easy to manipulate).

Just a personal interpretation, but I think that Albus compelled Severus to take an Unbreakable Vow with him (and chose most likely his silent brother Aberforth as their Binder), so that he could ensure Severus' total loyalty and submission to him. Just promising "Anything" ? No, I don't think that was enough. A cunning mind like Albus needed something real binding. He took advantage of Severus that was a total wreck (and still very young) at that time over Lily, to make him do whatever he needed and wanted in service of the Greater Good. Poor Severus...

Nobody is either black or white - Severus and Albus are proof of that.
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PostSubject: Re: How fair or wise was Dumbledore? Was he a user? Did he abuse his position?   Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:15 pm

You know, I've had the same thoughts too, that AD and Severus made a promise a vow, because when Severus turned to AD as you said, he was raw, and he took advantage of Severus and his vulnerable condition. I wonder too, if that isn't one of the reasons why Severus developed his iron exterior. He was hurt to many times, by people he thought he could trust.

And the memory we see only what Severus had wanted HP us to see, we don't see more, though again the writer, I think she did a poor job with the last book. But making a promise/ vow, makes perfect sense. After all, Severus was a DE at that time, and AD trusting a DE? Even though the kind of mental/physical state he was in? No, that would not fit his cunning.
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PostSubject: Re: How fair or wise was Dumbledore? Was he a user? Did he abuse his position?   Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:27 pm

I was actually also thinking about Snape and Dumbledore and the Unbreakable Vow. It is possible, the way Snape just does anything Dumbledore tells him to do.

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PostSubject: Re: How fair or wise was Dumbledore? Was he a user? Did he abuse his position?   Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:43 pm

And the way HP had questioned AD all through the books, how would AD know that Snape is in fact on their side... yeah, course AD didn't tell HP none, but he knew why. I do think that AD had Snape over the barrel in more ways then one.

So, IF he made the Vow with AD, and then later on in HBP with Narcissa, can one make multiple vows? was that vow with Narcissa ordered by AD?
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PostSubject: Re: How fair or wise was Dumbledore? Was he a user? Did he abuse his position?   Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:46 pm

I think the vow with Narcissa was a coincidence, a moment of weakness for Snape when Bella called him "coward" We all know how he hates that. But I think he was actually prepared to die rather thank fulfill the terms of the vow. And that's where Dubmbledore and his meddling comes in.

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PostSubject: Re: How fair or wise was Dumbledore? Was he a user? Did he abuse his position?   Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:32 am

No, it would totally change the storyline if Snape had made an unbreakable vow. The whole point was the choice that Severus made... but no, i don't really like Dumbledore either. Even if Severus hadn't made the unbreakable vow, he could still be used. Dumbledore made Severus think that they were protecting Harry for Lily's sake. Then, Snape found out that, in his words, the were "raising the boy like a pig for slaughter", so that he could die at the right moment.
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